Becoming an AI-first Google Ads Specialist

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00:00So, welcome back to the PPC Mastery podcast. Today I have a special guest from the PPC Hub, Cindy Ebner, and she is a Google Ads specialist who really adapted to working with AI and AI agents over the last couple of months. And she's been sharing this on stage at Friends of Search. So, we invited her to speak at the PPC Summit in Lisbon as well next month. and I just wanted to get her on on the podcast to yeah talk to her about her journey as it relates to adapting to this new way of working certain challenges that she faced with that and of course also how using AI and AI agents has really helped her in her role and and how her work has changed. So without further ado, Cindy, welcome. Before we dive into all of that, maybe you can briefly introduce who you are, where you work, what type of clients you work with, and then we'll get into all the the cool AI stuff. Yes, thanks for the intro. Really cool to be here. Yeah, I work at a German search marketing agency. We specialize in finance and insurance, but we also have some legacy B2B clients. So, mostly lead genen. We only have like one client who also has a shop where we they can sell actual products and not just services. So, yeah, that's my my focus. I started my career at this agency in SEO on the content side because I studied German and English languages. So yeah, nothing technical or related to AI or Google Ads. But then I got the chance to take over the PPC department at our agency because more and more clients were also requesting Google ad services. And then I just self thought myself at the agency and then as you probably know if you're

01:38working in an agency as well, it's mostly learning by doing and learning on the job. And I think that's also the way you learn best. And yeah, since that was nine, not nine years ago, 2019, not nine years ago yet. And yeah, since then I um a passionate Google ad specialist, still love my job, even though it changed in that time. I think I I don't know around five times, completely different stuff. And with AI, I think that's the biggest change that we're faced and facing still facing right now. Yeah, for sure. So you made that switch from SEO to PPC. I think that's an interesting one. How does the just so we understand like a little bit the agency that you're working at how many people work at the PPC department now? We have three people at the PPC department and 10 to 15 depending at the organic side because for writing content you just need more men and women power right so so three three specialists on the PPC side and like thousands of agents.

02:35[laughter] Exactly. Yeah. Because I think if it wouldn't be for AI, we would we should have hired because we couldn't manage it with three peoples anymore, but because we got the agent support in the last years and yeah, we we just couldn't can handle more and also do more for our clients like as I said the example with the one client that has a feed with the feed agents, we're now able to without having like thousands of hours of leaning into it, we can use it and then yeah also offer that service to our client now as well. It's really cool. Nice. So yeah. So let's let's dive into that because you spoke at friends of search earlier this year from again I told you as well from I heard from most people they told me that that was the highlight of the of the day. So kudos to you for that. That was about AI and and your personal journey in in adopting AI.

03:29Right. So can you just tell us a little bit about how you have really leaned into AI this year and what that means for your work your your your daily work your role how that has changed how you have seen the the agency change how you've seen the industry change challenges that you see with that I know that's a lot of questions in one [laughter] but we'll unpack them one by one but maybe you can just talk about how you have made the the the change to really embracing AI I starting to work with it and whether you faced any struggles in the beginning and why you decided to do that. We can just start there. The cool thing is that I really have to thank my my boss or one of the founders of the agency who when Chad TBT launched end of 2022, he went totally crazy right away. And I think all his Christmas holiday break was just trying out stuff with Jet GPT. And when I came back from my vacation in January 2023, he like I had uh an appointment in my calendar one-on-one with him and I usually don't do one-on- ones with him because he's the the organic founder like he's a SEO specialist and I work with the other founder most of the time. So I was really okay what's going on? And then he said so this happened over the last few months. I automated this. I found a way where the where Chad GPT can help me with that. Now for one week, do nothing else. Just play around and find things out with ChatGPT. Think about what you're doing all day, where you where things could be automated or where the chat could support you in

05:06writing ad copy or whatever comes to your mind. And then I handed everything over to my team and had really one week just to try things out with ChatGPT. From that week, we had like a prompt book and a process book, SOPs and so on. And we were continuing to develop them and to to make them better over the months. And then already in May 2023, which was only six months after JPT launched, we presented at a big German OMR. I don't know if some of you can know it. It's like a big marketing event in Hamburg in Germany. And we presented our processes for SEO and PPC together. And yeah, then we launched an ebook with prompts and so on. And we're still yeah, always it better and going with the developments that were happening in the AI industry. And then now when I think about it that we were like really proud to present prompts that you can copy and paste into a chat [laughter] and then give feedback. It sounds like ancient times now that we're working with actual agents and with the PPC OS. So yeah, that was the like intro to it.

06:12Yeah. Yeah. That's that's crazy, right? How fast things are changing that now back then you thought like this is the advanced stuff. This is cool. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Just copy paste these prompts and and you're good. Which was which was like the the the the good thing to do back then. But it's crazy how how fast things are are changing and especially as you said like now with agents even a lot of that part is now automated because the agents can also think for themselves. True. But what I think is interesting is that your founder, your your boss had that focus on AI because his his is it him her him? Yeah, it's him. Right. So him he he he saw he he was mind-b blown basically by using it himself and then said, "Okay guys, everyone in the team used this for one week." I think that's definitely super unique because you never hear that at all at agencies because you know how it is, right? With billable hours and everything.

07:03Yeah, I think that's that's that's definitely special. And yeah, how did you then make the transition from as you said like that with the the prompts and chat GBT into starting with actual AI agents? Yeah, there was one thing in between because like the first stage of using AI was just prompting and copy and pasting and then the second one because we were presenting at that exact marketing event again and we wanted to do something cool again and not just present what we did in the past. So we thought about how can we put this to the next level because we're still doing a lot of manual work like we're copying and pasting. Chad GPT doesn't know search volume. So we have to copy and paste the data from Google Ads keyword planner into ChatGPT. We do like give him the information on our clients. We have to copy it in again and adjust if it changes and so on. And then we thought, couldn't there be a system where we have like all the information on the client where we have like the how do you say the the wording guidelines what we can say what we can't say and everything that we need and the prompts in prompt databases where it can automatically get them without us copy and pasting it. So that we just start the process and interface and that was like our first tool that we built. It could only do campaign setups because everything else was too complicated. So we had like with make and nadn we built a workflow for setting up new search campaigns where it started with doing keyword re first we gave the input on what campaign we want to set up. Then it took all the information from the client

08:39that we had set up a profile for that we could reuse for every new campaign build. And then it did a keyword research. Then we got the keywords and then we checked them and then we put it to the next level. Then we got the ad groups and so on and so forth. So it was step by step. I think I also in my friends of search presentation I set a time time stamp to it. I think before we worked with AI ever we built eight hours for a complete search campaign setup with everything. Then with the ChatGPT prompt support it was around six and then with our tool it was three to four depending on the campaign. Now with PPC OS and agents, it's minutes with like just setting it up. Sure, you have to do the quality assurance and so on, but just the setting up process is crazy fast right now. Yeah. That was the the logical next step from this system was then going into clo code.

09:33Yeah. And when did you start to use that? Was like December or so, you said? I think. Yes. I saw a post from Mike Gro on the 8020 brain and it was like a video recording of the actual interface in cursor where an audit was happening and I think the video was around 2 minutes and you could see what it was doing in the background like which information it got where it got that from what hypothesis it made from that and I was just blown away when I saw that video and I immediately ran to my AI bos who's happy with investing investing in AI all the time and showed him that and said can I buy this course I think that's the next thing that we have to do because when everything gets faster and yeah we do have to like the the advantage for in comparison to other agencies to do yeah something cooler and to offer more and then I bought it I think it was already in November last year I have to check again when I saved that post or when that I still know what post it was because I have screenshotted it [laughter] for the friends of search presentation But then I logged into it's also in circle like the PPC Hub and I was like what is going on? I don't understand anything because [laughter and gasps] what is a terminal? Never heard of it.

10:48What is cursor? What is the difference? Why can't I just use the claw app? Why do I have to do that? It was so confusing in the beginning. But then I just said okay now how do you say eat the frog? I have to get over it. Just do it. and just like Mike had really detailed stepbystep guide where you can yeah but it was still really overwhelming and confusing. So I remember that one of my colleagues has a more IT background. She studied like I don't know what exactly something with it in there marketing and IT something like that and I called her and said can you help me I don't really understand anything. So in around 1 hour she walked me through everything and then I had the setup and from that point on I there was no going back because then I realized okay everything that I don't know I can just ask [laughter] and it guides me through it step by step and that was yeah the the gamechanging moment and then I start working with the brain and we had those SOPs already and those prompts and so on. So I imported them into it and built skills from it.

11:54The first ones were like basics. For example, the first thing was the the campaign build because we had everything in the system. So I could just give it to Claude and then build a skill from it. I think campaign build is also the the command that it's still using. And then I saw that you're working on something similar in the PPC Hub that like I think Bob already started building out your SOPs. I don't know when when exactly was that also end of last year sometimes. Yeah, we started working on our knowledge base end of last year and then at the beginning of this year we started to really drop the first teasers in the PPC Hub sharing what we had been working on but it wasn't we hadn't built any skills yet. It was just like here's the knowledge base and the SOPs that we made AI ready and then it was actually Alfred who created the first skills based on based on that and he showed us like oh no you can make this even so much more efficient by turning that into AI ready skills and that that is how it all snowballed into PPC OS what what it is that's so interesting because we did the same like because we had your knowledge base and we were me all members like we have the agency how do you say membership so we're all using the PPC app also my the two clients was also lurkers like I was before [laughter] before I presented at friends of search and I saw that you have like those quality score SOPs where you can that's so cool you could just put this into cloud and make a skill out of it so we already did skills from your SOPs before you even publish them and use them and then because when I said yes to presenting at friends of search mark asked me to present on agents and I said I don't use agents yet but I can give

13:31you like a way to it like we at the system with our like the tool that we had our PPC tool with the campaign build skill the only one that it had and yeah I said I cannot I can give you like a maybe a view into the future what could be happening with agents and then by the time friends of search arrived I was already full full on working with the brain and agents and yeah also reached out then to Bob to ask him if I can like credit him because we use [laughter] his SOPs to do our skills. So I didn't want to like I did that and it was really cool because he ended up being there and then we talked to each other and full circle moment now I'm here. Yeah. Coming to the BBC summit. Yeah. No, that's that's super cool. I think it it just shows the the the sort of standard adoption curve of AI where you guys had already done the the the groundwork that you had to do in order for you to start using AI agents so quickly because all the SOPs and the the knowledge base and and and everything that you had created in for Chat GBT earlier, you just plugged into the new tool that you used which can actually run agents, right? And it's it's the the the perfect progression also from a AI is so cool. I can chat to it, get get feedback all the way to now it's just doing stuff for me in a matter of minutes and all I have to do is just press the button and it's and it's actually doing it. So maybe now we can look at what do you actually do with AI agents and what do you run it on because I think that's a lot of uncertainty for

15:09people is what once you if you show people you're working in a terminal which looks like you're actually just coding well obviously it is a coding environment that we're working in then most people myself included yourself included are like what is this and why am I supposed to use this why can't I as you said why can't I just use the normal interface which looks normal this looks like some yeah like developer territory how did you yeah what was the the the turning point for you where you sort of became comfortable in working with a terminal and what would you say to people who might look at a terminal and be like no I think I'm not technical enough for that yeah I would yeah also say as I said for just eat the frog. It's only like the setup part that's really confusing. And then you can also like I still work in the classic dark mode terminal as it looks, but you can also adjust it like you can put it to light mode and you can customize it so that it's a tool that you like working with. But yeah, just get over this first initial hurdle where you think I don't understand anything and then it will be yeah I wouldn't want to go back ever again. So I'm I'm so excited what's what's coming. I I read the updates also in the PPC Hub and Mike also does like monthly updates to the brain because there's always new stuff coming. I just read that two weeks ago or something it started that you can now let chats talk to each other so that you

16:46when you're working in a chat on a topic and then you open another one maybe because your context window went full you can ask them to discuss over the topic so that you don't have to yeah copy and paste something back and forth and then they find a solution so that you don't like have double things going on. It's so crazy like every week something new is coming. So yeah, I just would would say just do this. Yeah. Do it one time and then you will be thankful forever that you did it. Give yourself some time, allow yourself to feel scared and then just do it anyway. Yeah. Totally agree. So when you're using AI agents, can you just maybe walk us through how your work has actually changed because of that? What do you do with the agents? What do they actually do for you like really on a daily basis? And yeah, what has just changed? is are there any things that you don't do anymore or do less of? Are there other things that you do more of that for you?

17:42I can do a quick or small sneak peek on what I will be presenting at the summit in in a month because I also want to do like a week in an AI first agency like really showing what we're actually doing, what we're still doing ourselves, how our clients are reacting to things that we're giving out and where things maybe go wrong where we have to double check if the agent is actually doing what we want him to do. Yeah. And so one thing when I start the week Mondays I did the planning for the team where I check like what mails did come in, what didn't we manage last week, are there any changes in Google Ads? We do a weekly ads check. Were there any bigger things that we need to look at in more detail this week to yeah get to the client to tell them that something's not running as it should or whatever. And did like a yeah just a a weekly planning was the first thing I did. Monday I had a process what I was looking at. We're using uh Trello to like organize with our cards and so on. First thing I did connect cursor to Trellos and to my mails. So that like the part of finding out what like any client mails or any requests or any updates just yeah in the weekly planning as well all my skills are named in German. So I have to planning it's in German but yeah I just do the skill now I explained him once what I do did the planning with him together so that he knows what I'm doing and now I just do Monday weekly planning and while it's running I can still get some coffee do something else start another process and then I think I don't

19:21know 20 minutes later I have the ready to go Trello board with all the to-dos he knows who's responsible for which client and all adds the the girls to it so we a girl only team and then we're yeah just having a call talking about it if everything's in there if you forgot something if something's not matching like at the moment so many things are going on with the bidding change for Google with things that AI max that's automatically coming if you do not look at your the the settings that you have in your campaigns and so on and he also reads those newsletters and says check your clients see if you're good and does to-dos from that so that's really cool that's like my my Monday morning and then I have every morning and every night I have a GM and a GN where he like gives me my to-dos. What should I do today? Are there any things that I missed? I also have that's also another tip to go back to the question before.

20:13just plug one hour a week for developing your your however you call it if you call it brain if you call it operating system if it's your PPC OS whatever is it's just your your claw I don't know pluck one hour where you just develop more skills where you just go into it where you just ask it what can I do better and I now have like also a skill that is like just developing the the brain further and I have like an ideas.mmd where like all my ideas what I want to do what I was working on process that I started are in there and when I do the command and he tells me a last time we worked on that but we didn't finish because this took too long and so on and so forth and sometimes the blocker goes further than an hour and it's half a day just getting things done and sometimes I just have to stick to the the one hour because I have to do client stuff but yeah at least one hour a week is just dedicated to caring about my agents and then we do have like the skills for PPC operational stuff like I said campaign build audits I think all the skills that we have from the PPC OS we use on a regular basis I love the tracking specialist because none of us has like the really deep background in tracking so we knew what we were doing but we're always bit hesitant to actually go to the client and say that's completely false do that do that and then it will work more maybe you could and now we're like more confident going out there and saying hey we did a tracking audit this is not working you should do this and that's yeah that's really cool

21:50yeah super cool so it sounds like how you are using AI now of course there's many many more things how you're using it but many more ways this sounds like this is sort of your sanity check throughout the week that you know that you're working on the right stuff you're not leaving anything that is being undone because it It looks through the inbox and the conversations with the clients on things that you discuss to do that you may not have picked up which is always like if you're working with clients you know this feeling like right you're always trying to juggle everything and trying to keep everything in your head and you're always at least that's for me like every morning you you open your inbox or Slack or whatever you use you're like okay please nothing please nothing no like [laughter] nothing broken no no oh you missed this the landing page has been offline for 14 days like you just hope that nothing is is is broken and it sounds like this gives you that sort of sanity check that you have that peace knowing that everything is is taken care of.

22:50Yeah, that's a a really big point because yeah, sometimes you forget to put something from the email into a Trello card so that you remember or you flag a mail and then 50 new [laughter] are coming and you can't find it anymore and you forget about it. So that's just not happening anymore. That's also Yeah. So cool. Yeah. That's super good. So in the round table that we did, you mentioned that in your agency and for you, you you you sort of seen that the roles have changed and we were talking about it in the round table where we also saw it like the traditional split for specialists working at a at an agency or yeah freelance with clients at least. You could either be sort of the the executor, the person who does the thing or the more a little bit more like the strategist where you start with the execution and then throughout your career you sort of grow grow grow and you learn more and more and more. You become more senior. Then you kind of go out of the operation and into more strategy at higher level which is always super necessary and useful. But we also saw that with AI you can now kind of do both because well all the things that you have just mentioned you can do so much with AI so much faster. So you can still be on top of the execution but at the same time you have a lot more time available for the actual strateg strategic stuff. How have you seen that within your agency within your role and within with your colleagues? Yeah. How has that how has that changed? What have you seen?

24:19Yeah totally. We talked about it in the in the round table already. I am seeing totally the same because in the beginning when we started working as a a team of three like before we were only two and then it was really like I am the strategist I do the calls with the clients I do the pitches I do the sales calls and my colleague does everything in the background like all the execution stuff and yeah getting getting things done and I say what she has to do like the classical thing then we grew and I got another colleague and she was like the the colleague had before was more shy and she didn't want to go like into into calls with clients. So, she was happy with the position just nerding in the Google interface, Google Ads interface. And then the other girl that joined our team was more like yeah I I want to work with clients. I find it really interesting but she wasn't that on on that senior level to do that. So she was a bit hesitant and then started with small ones. And since we work with the agents and with PPC OS and the brain like we do have our own clients like it's not anymore that I go in at every call like everyone has their clients and they're helping them on a strategic basis and they do the operational stuff.

25:32We have everything in our database for the client so that when someone's sick or on vacation that we can simply just take over because we know everything is documented. we know where they were standing. We're recording our weekly calls so that we have all the information in one place goes directly into our setup. So yeah, that's totally changed. So we're now we don't have like a operational PPC manager and PPC strategist which was the way before. Now we're all just yeah PPC specialists, strategist specialist, whatever the the the exact title is but yeah and it gave them the confidence to go into a call even if they don't know everything they can just quickly ask the brain and then just yeah be confident and help the the client and they also know what what to do in the background. So, it's yeah, it's really cool. And for me also who didn't do that much in the actual account anymore in the past few years, now getting back to it again is really also really cool. It's still fun and I still like doing it.

26:32Yeah. Do you like that? And and uh has your team liked this this change as well? How did that how did they receive it? Because maybe some people don't want to do execution, maybe some people want to do more of it, maybe some want to do more strategy. How was that received in the team? And what do you what is your personal opinion of that for yourself? Yeah, like as they they they tell me they they really like it. They are so excited to working with this setup and also do some really cool stuff like I love it when I get a message, hey, I have a new skill. I want to share it with you. Try it out. Let me know if I can do something or I thought this could be a skill and we haven't we didn't have this in our account and here's like a safety lever because something could happen, whatever. So I really really love that that they're really also into this developing. So they I also said to them like take your one hour a week at least to just yeah d deep dive into your into your setup and see what you can improve. And I think also the the one colleague I just I think I can call her name is Jenny. She was more like shy and didn't want to go into client calls before and now she's like yeah totally confident. She likes it. She has really and she's really good in relationship building like for me it was like you do I don't know did you worked in an agency before right?

27:49Yeah. As you know, the topic of like handing over clients also like a bit sensitive if they like getting used to you and they think you're the more senior person and now they're getting hand over to someone who doesn't know that much and so on. And it's like totally different because they are now realizing, okay, cool. the person I'm talking to actually did this and it was actually their idea and when I ask a question they can answer everything because yeah it it's coming from them because they are actually working in my account and that's really cool because when I was in the the calls and presented something that one of my colleagues prepared for me and they did like crazy questions that I couldn't answer was not that yeah how do you say that help to add that confident. Exactly. It didn't help to build trust that I actually know what I'm talking about.

28:43But if you did it yourself and if you developed the idea and if you put it into account with a reason behind it because you're confident that this will happen, then you can yeah just go in the call and yeah, just answer everything. Yeah, that's that's the way now. Yeah, I think it's so much better as you said like the person actually doing the thing is the person who can explain it the the best and it's the it's always like if you have the traditional way where a junior is on the account and then the senior is the the the client facing one there's always so much that is lost in in translation and now it's the actual person doing it is is the the person in contact with the client which is I think only a good thing so when you do so much of the execution with your agents now has where you provide value to your clients has that changed meaning you know we have the this philosophy T-shaped specialist where you are deep in one field of expertise and then you have broad broad level skills that you stack on top of that that are indirectly related to the main thing that will help you do the main thing better. So we have people in the PPC Hub who are focusing more on CRO. Some people are focusing more on creative. Some people go deep on measurement. To combine that with their their Google Ads or their paid advertising existing skill set, is there a has there been a change for yourself of what you can now focus on with your time now that you do the so much of the execution with with agents?

30:17Yeah, totally. For example, as I said already that we're now confidently presenting tracking concepts that should work for the client because we know that will work. Also, we've going on like CRO and landing page optimization because in the past it was with many of our clients, bigger insurance companies, it can take weeks to get a landing page live because they have to do a mockup and what whatever takes hours, not hours, weeks. And then we just optimize what we what's in our hand like in the account. But as you know there's only so far you can go without touching the actual offer or landing page. And now yeah with offer optimization and landing page optimization we can yeah help our clients to get even better results. That's really cool that and it wasn't something that we offered before like we told them yeah the landing page is not the best. We would suggest that blah blah blah but it wasn't like here's the setup. It already looks like your landing page because our VCOS built it like the the way your website is built.

31:17We would suggest to do this and that and then we can ask like some experts expert council to rate our landing page and so on and give different options. So that's really cool. Let me think about if there's anything else that we did not do before because as we are an organic SEO agency as well which is now sometimes called geo because [laughter] people also want to be visible in generative engines like cloud JPT AI overviews we're also doing like the whole search approach that we say okay we check how visible are you in AI overviews does it make sense to put a net on top of that does the ad say the same that's in the AI overview so that you have like a a coherent SER experience with your brand. So that's also something that we always wanted to do because we said it doesn't make sense that some of our clients do like have our SEO service and some only our PPC services. We do have a lot that do both, but we also have a lot that say no that's another department that's not a budget thing. So we cannot like give you the the the PBC or the SEO money as well. And now we can just like proactively give them that just saying we don't have to manage it but we can like tell you you should tell this to your SEO team or you should keep an eye on that and that gets the conversation going to oh maybe we should work with them in both areas.

32:40So yeah that's also really cool. Great. So we've talked a lot about like the upside and the benefits of of using AI and and being uh adapting to this new way of working. But have there also been some struggles that you have faced or or challenges that you see in working on a daily basis with AI? Yes. One thing is you if you're so mind-b blown and the things are so good coming out, you get a bit how do you say you're too confident it's it's good. So, ah yeah, that that looks good. Just a quick I have to hurry because I have thousand other things to do to send it out to the client without really double checking everything it says and then it can get ugly because like saying just said there's no call to action on the landing page and you say okay that's bad but I didn't double check and then the client comes because there is one and what's going on? So that happened and that's just a reminder for us to not leave it unprotected. just check double check everything that goes out to the client and really check if we actually did what he wanted to and also sometimes things happen like we're not happy with the with what's coming out and then we're just asking what's going ah I thought you don't need that so I didn't check it so it still sometimes does crazy things where you have to remind it to but that are also chances because you can tell never do that again keep that in mind adjust the skill and if you do the mistake take once you at least learn from it. So yeah, those are two things that I would say be careful when using it. Still still check everything that's

34:18going out and we're still really careful like in our PPC round table. I saw that many are also using the the writing skill already like letting the agents write into the account. At that time we were still hesitant. We didn't do writing at all like everything still went through our check and then we manually or with the Google Ads editor uploaded it to the account. Now we're softly starting getting into it like negative keyword for example checking the list and then just say okay upload it. So things that are not that critical. We're starting to lean into that a bit more. But also something where I would say be careful if you're actually in the account where like I don't know how many it's your client's money that's in that account. So yeah, be careful that nothing crazy is happening. Yeah, for sure. And I think it is Sarah said this as well at the I think it was the No, it was the same round table as you.

35:11But yeah. Yeah, same one. She said that she also was hesitant in the beginning to let AI actually make the changes, but then once she did it, she really got hooked hooked to it like oh I can actually implement it for me as well. Yeah. Okay. Now always do it. But I think it's I always recommend against it in the beginning just so you are familiar like you said. AI is not perfect even though it will make it seem as though it is perfect especially as you get now it gets a little bit technical but especially as you start to get to the upper li upper limit of the context window then you're using a lot of tokens at least that that's what I'm seeing then it starts to make a lot of mistakes and then you call it out and then like oh you're absolutely right sorry my bad and that can get really tricky once you are actually using your client's budgets so you have to be you have to be careful with that so always I always recommend like do those those those dry runs first see the actual output and then if it's good let it implement but then even then after that I would still suggest to to check it to make sure that it actually did what it said it was going to do because you never know it's still like yeah it it feels magical but it is not magic [laughter] yeah exactly like the the the first moment when I had like a complete campaign build and oh now I have to implement it and maybe I just try it and then it actually worked I was like Okay.

36:29But yeah, we're still in the progress of Yeah. getting all the things in line that everything's safe for the client and for everything. So yeah, nothing crazy can happen. Yeah. So my final question then is for anyone who's watching this and thinking like oh that does sound interesting who might be a little bit on the fence about the actual like uses usage of AI and agents because I I do see there's a lot of people that are still skeptical especially about connecting AI to your Google Ads account through the API or or reading data through MCP service etc. What is your advice to someone who hasn't used agents yet, may be curious, but may also be a little bit skeptical? I would say really go to the places where people already did the thing. So the PPC Hub, 8020 brain, any communities where people are talking about what they already did because you don't have to start from zero. There are really cool setups that you can use. Like I was always really I'm still when I see someone's sharing a skill and on LinkedIn and says then you can like let AI run everything. That's not what I mean with that, but just like the really the communities where you just you don't have to be hesitant to ask any questions that you might have because there are so many people that are so helpful. Like when I see Alfred answering every question in the PPC OS and Mike for the 8020 print is also really yeah engaging and helpful and always updates you with everything that's going on. So that's

38:06really cool. just find your a place where you can do it together with people who already are working with it and then yeah as I said just get over the the initial feeling that you don't know what you're actually doing and just start start soft with yeah like one hour a week get used to it and then yeah I think it will will build up from there and in a short amount of time you probably will yeah will never want to go back again Yeah, perfect. I I agree. In the beginning, you have to accept you don't know anything and that's okay. You have to get over that initial fear and then once you actually start to use it and you see it, then yeah, you you never want to go back ever again. So, Cindy, thank you so much. We're going to wrap up here. Thanks everyone for watching. And if you want to see more of Cindy, then join us at the PPC Summit in Lisbon next month. And where can people follow you, Cindy?

39:04You can follow me on LinkedIn. You can I think LinkedIn is the best the best channel to to just DM me. Yeah, I can be also your sparings partner. If you want like if you want to talk agents, how did you get into it? Just send over any questions that you might have. I'll try to answer them as good as I can. Awesome. Great. Thank you so much, Cindy. And thanks everyone for watching and we'll see you in the next episode of the BBC Mastery podcast.