How she built an agency people actually enjoy working at

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00:00it's not really about technical ability it's about how driven they are and how curious we've obviously had to like occasionally remove people from the business that just aren't right and the role's not right for them or the industry is not right for them that's definitely a challenge all right so welcome back everyone to the PBC Mastery podcast today I am joined by the co-founder or one of the co-founders of House of Performance Kat Sale um Kat you're someone who I have been following um for a long time on LinkedIn uh actually from almost from the beginning when I when I saw you guys you and Emma working together uh just I think you were really small at the time just maybe a few maybe two or three team members and in the in in a couple of years you've grown it to I think from what I've seen now 14 team members so uh yeah today I want to uncover everything there is about House of Performance what makes you guys unique um and yeah from what I see on LinkedIn obviously outside looking in it looks like you have built a really good solid culture with with awesome people so I want to hear all all about that um but before we dive into your whole story of building House of Performance to what it is today I want to ask you one quick question and that is what is something that you believe about Google Ads that most people would disagree with amazing thanks for having me um so I believe that Google Ads still the devil is in the detail and you can make a massive difference by looking at the detail and unpicking under the hood and I think that now a lot of people believe maybe not set and forget quite

01:38as far as that but definitely you know let it be automated it'll be fine Google knows what we need and it's just not true it's it's so not true yeah yeah and I I'm definitely interested to hear why you think that and how what exactly it is that you guys offer as a service with House of Performance uh but before we go into that actually um I saw one of your posts recently on LinkedIn and I'm just going to read it out you said four years ago I had a secure job a three-year-old and a newborn not the ideal time to quit and start a business then Emma had the Grand Vision of an agency that could change the PPC industry four years later oh that that's actually the stop of the post four years later you actually have a quote unquote actual agency that you've built uh with a team of 14 now so yeah I'm curious can you talk about your journey starting from the beginning why did you decide to work with Emma and build House of Performance especially when you said like you had your secure job you had a really young family uh a three-year-old and a newborn I can imagine that's crazy as well to combine that with starting a business so yeah let's take it four years back and and why did you decide to do that okay um I love a challenge and I don't like getting bored easily it's a trap line to know about me so I em and I work together oh we started working together in 2011 I think or 2010 an agency called periscopic uh she was senior to me and the agency was just very I'm not going to say basic but like they did the

03:14brilliant Basics really well keep things simple bring people in entry level train them up so we both started our career in PPC there um and we were friends and we worked together on staff and we always had really similar values and ways of work so it was always really easy um so we left there I left there in 2015 she left a little bit before me and we went our separate ways but just stayed in touch as friends and we saw more stuff around the industry more things going really well and more things going badly and we met for a dog walk during covid I don't know what it was like where you were but in sort of um late 2020 you could meet someone for a dog walk outside you couldn't go inside right so we used to meet a lot for dog walks we both got dog um and she was Emma was working in a a big Network agency and really struggling with the culture and ways of working and managing everything to a strict p&l that was like the biggest challenge um and I was on maternity leave baby was like a month old um and I I was at C another agency that was a brilliant agency I was there for like five and a half years and she told me about this consultancy she wanted to do whereby you essentially would help in-house teams do better with paid media so we have always specialized just in PBC and paid social and display we don't do anything else we're not going to try and do anything else we can

04:50unpick that later if you want um but there's a lot of businesses that know they want to do better with that but don't really know how and they don't necessarily want lengthy expensive contracts with an agency so Emma pretty much had this whole business plan she would she didn't ask me she didn't ask me to come with her but I was like this is the most exciting thing I've heard about in about 10 years so can I come with you and it kind of just escalated from there so as soon as we left our jobs like telling people about it referrals just started coming in we didn't advertise as such just link like LinkedIn posting um and just our contacts and then the first two contracts we got were much bigger than planned which was great yeah and one of them is still a client now nice which is incredible and they've gone from being fully managed to them running it and us being Consultants to then full circle us managing it again so we really just want to help businesses do better with paid media we don't actually care who manages it but what happened over time is some clients would say we don't want to run it ourselves can you run it so we developed another side of the business that does that and hired people and so on and so forth yeah that's that's definitely interesting so I guess that is a testament to the Quality that you guys deliver because if first you they Outsource it to you and then I guess the the natural um yeah inclination of of Brands and businesses would be to in to

06:27inhouse certain expertise and then they have you as the external Consultants to sort of maybe train them and take them take them take them by the hand um to reach the same goals and and performance but then they probably notice like ah this is really hard and uh and we actually need true experts and then they ask you to come back and just take over again sometimes or sometimes they just bring us in every few months some Brands like knowing that we're just there that they could reach out if needed um we've had one client full circle where we um audited their campaigns took over management for about a year and a half they then took it in house and it was a really great opportunity for the person in house they could progress learn more about PPC we trained her that person's now got on maternity leave so we' taken it back to manage it for like an eight-month period and it's just really nice um I like that way of building relationships and working long term not just thinking about the next month's bill you know yeah and you mentioned that you and and Emma you have similar values in well life I guess but also in how you want to build an agency can you elaborate on that yeah so we definitely care a lot about working really hard driving results so we're def we're never going to be an agency that will just sign a client and then get distracted by something shiny a new and then leave that client you know we've got pretty good processes in to make sure that doesn't happen um so we really care about success and results both of us we're always driven and if one of us is

08:06like struggling slightly we tend to bring the other one up and vice versa which really helps um and we care equally about work life balance so as much as we both love success we don't work sort of 12 14 hour days we make sure we take breaks we make sure the team take breaks we really like on using holiday and I think because we're the same in those ways of caring about things it just makes it easier because you know I'll say oh God I'm really struggling like this thing blah blah blah and emerald say when did you last have a day off you know and so she cares she actually cares about that I guess that's the thing about it isn't it we care about each other's General well-being as well as the business we're not just in it for the money yeah and that that then trickles down into the organiz ation I can imagine yeah yeah so um right now you are at a team of 14 is that correct yeah yeah so how's that change been for you in terms of how you yeah how much fun you're having at the agency how how it how it actually is operationally I know you mentioned on Mondays now you're working from home um which might be needed if you have a big team to manage but um yeah can you maybe talk about some changes that you've seen going from just you and Emma all the way to where you are now massive changes we never were going to we weren't going to hire and then we kind of got to like a four five months in and we were like we're not going to be able to grow if we don't hire because clients are sticking around so then we were like right let's

09:44hire we feel really strongly about bringing people into the industry so Emma and I have hired and fired lots of people over the years right a different agencies and I think that bringing in fresh Talent is something that we feel is you know I find quite easy to do yes there's a lot of training and handholding initially but you can train them how you want you can make sure they follow your detailed process and they tend to stick around for a little while um the industry is full of people that sorry to say this agency world is full of people that love to you know demand High salaries move around a lot but actually not do much right and the more senior you get in agencies often the less in the detail you are because we believe that the performance is in the detail you have to stay close to that so I think that hiring Junior and training them up helps us move with the industry because they're interested in new things and it helps us stay in the detail if that makes sense yeah yeah absolutely um so so is is the majority of the people that you have on your team now just um people who start with relatively little experience and then you everybody so everybody in the business apart from me and Emma has um started from they've had other jobs probably like some of All Sorts but not specific to this industry like the first person we hired she's still with us now she's been with us nearly three years and she started in estate agency work and very quickly realized that wasn't for her and

11:22then she got a job with us um we love growing people I think that's part of it yeah that that is also the perception that I had from the outside looking in I I always see the pictures of the the team um and and how you and Emma both talk about your team on LinkedIn I think that is um definitely unique for sure um maybe also because it is two women in the agency World leading a uh leading an agency you know um I can imagine also for you since you have two two kids or maybe more two boys I have two boys two boys I can just imagine like yeah you have your agency uh role that you're managing and then when you come home it's another full-time job so you kind of yeah um yeah there is a lot going on yeah but also regardless of what you've got going on at home everybody needs life outside of work to do a good job I think do you know what I mean yeah absolutely it's definitely true but I I think there's a lot of agency owners who just don't look at that at all yeah just think at the results and that's and life is kind of like that's it's just so shortsighted though isn't it because if you if your team are happy in their General Life their work will be better they'll make more of an effort with their clients which will make you more money there is an alter motive underneath it really yeah it's a win-win yeah it is exactly yeah absolutely hey guys real quick if you like this episode don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss anything in the future and feel free to share with a friend call or family member cuz that's

13:00the only way we can grow this show all right back to the show so in this in this journey of building a House of Performance what are what are some of the biggest challenges that you that you have faced well growing a team that is Junior has had many challenges right because we didn't start with small clients we have a range of clients right all different Industries and all different sizes some of them spending like 5,000 a month some of them spending like 50,000 a month so it really varies and you know no no client wants to be told oh the person we're assigning you has been with us a month right so we have to have we have this process basically where every client no matter the size has at least a junior and a senior on it yeah now the senior might be me or Emma or it might be someone we obviously now have some seniors within the team because they've grown and that there's two benefits to that I suppose the clients get to see that we're putting a lot of resource into their um account and make sure that we can we've got experience to back that up but also then the Juniors learn quickly off the seniors if that makes sense yeah um but no that has been a challenge and we have definitely had clients say you know we don't want just a junior team what are you going to do about that how much are you as one of the founders going to be available so we have to make sure we' ring fence time for the clients as well which is fine it just means to sacrifice other things to do that yeah but that's a challenge um much easier now like now the team's a lot bigger and

14:38you know probably 7 yeah and like 70% of them have been with us more than a year so they're not new so it's fine um so that's first challenge second challenge is finding the right people and making sure they're right very quickly because when you interview we have quite a rigorous interview process but you never really know right until someone starts and they get cracking and yeah it's not really about technical ability it's about how driven they are and how curious so you know we've had to we've obviously had to like occasionally remove people from the business that just aren't right and the role is not right for them or the industry is not right for them that's definitely a challenge yeah those probably so the people I would say the people basically is the challenge mainly yeah yeah um is that also still like you those are some of the CH biggest challenges of the last four years since building a House of Performance is that also one of the biggest challenges that you're facing currently or are there other challenges that you're facing as agency right now which might be different from when you started um well when we first started we also had a big challenge of nobody knew us and they want when you go to a bigger pitch they want to know who you work with and they want to hear names that they know so for like quite a while we didn't really have any sexy brand names um now we've got a few of those it definitely is easier because PE people it doesn't even matter what you do with that brand really they just want to hear the name it's so funny yeah um so that's a challenge I'd say that's gone away now which is great people definitely um just the juggle as we've

16:18got bigger because there's 14 of us now and there's a lot of people's needs still people related right y I mean I'm so thankful I've got a co-founder partner that we share the work because I just couldn't do it otherwise I don't think not to the standard I want yeah and what is the what is the division then between you and Emma in terms of operations or um yeah how you run how you run the business yeah I guess sorry is it just you you two as the the two Founders yeah so we've got we have got people that have progressed into management now nice so we there is a bit of a hierarchy but it's still quite flat really um em and I have divided up some things so like she's in charge of new business I lead a lot of the marketing I'm in charge of invoicing like task based stuff but we both definitely love to get involved in all areas still that's the fun of it really yeah because we love variety yeah yeah as you mentioned in the beginning you do you like a challenge and you don't like to get bored definitely yeah um and so those are the challenges how about some of the the the more wins or success stories from from those 14 uh 14 years I was going to say since you hired 14 people from the last couple of years I think big wins were like when we realized that some of the team could be self-sufficient in staff and they'd come to a client meeting and they had loads of ideas that were nothing to do with me or Emma and we were like wow we've trained you but now you're your own expert I we've got a guy that's been

17:55with us seven months and he's like Leading The Way with demand J wants to know everything about it wants to push other people to test it so like seeing people have initiatives running without us needing to push is amazing um what other successes I think when we won our first award so we won best UK startup at the um which one was it I'm going to forget now I think it was like UK paid media Awards 2023 or too anyway it doesn't matter um the first time we won was phenomenal because we just didn't expect anyone was taking us that seriously um especially as women it sounds I don't want to gone about this too long but like yeah we've had a lot of comments like oh you're just a lifestyle business you know it's great that you can do that to fund your shopping habit stuff like that that is just ridiculous um so to then win Awards and grow really well just feels great because it just means all that stuff just melts away yeah exactly that's you just become legit but anyone who opinion anyway like exactly doesn't doesn't matter at all you know you know who you are and what you're what you're building yeah um that's that's obviously the most important thing um and uh what are your goals moving forward with House of Performance in terms of what you are comfortable sharing of course yeah so I mean we had a goal like Revenue wise we've got T targets we don't need targets but I think they help us

19:34to focus on growing and the thing about growing is ironically we've grown so much that doesn't mean that me and Emma all of a sudden are really rich and it's all great if anything it's gone the other way because the costs are so much higher but the growth's really important because because the goal is to help grow people yeah as in help people grow their careers in paid media yeah to do that we have to be growing as an agency because if we just stick with the the same clients and we don't grow there's less opportunity comes up yeah and then people get bored and then they leave because there's always a competitor looking to take your staff so growth's super important not only from like a size and money thing but also staff retention so we we really care about staff retention because you know it's good for the business it's good for the clients all that stuff um so got you asked me about goals and I've gone up on a tangent no I I I like that and something we can we can zoom into because I once again this is it's so important you know and and maybe I don't know if it's for you it feels normal or second nature or maybe because it is also part of your um of your character and Emma's character that you it seems to me like you are a nice person who cares about other people since you you said that's one of the core things that you look at with househ performance but again in the agency world there's a lot lot of um yeah a lot of a lot of agencies a lot of businesses that just don't care or just don't look at those things at all so I think this is really uh really a fresh air in in the industry right now so um and even if you know and

21:13I didn't mean per se with goals like money goals or or what how much revenue you want to do this is great because if your sole or if your primary goals to to grow people in the industry then as a result by in doing so you're also going to grow your exactly yeah yeah no we yeah definitely carry on growing and you know people that don't care about that stuff won't win in the end yeah absolutely so we just I mean it's so simple really we just want to do good work and be a good place to work that is the goal and that's been the goal from the beginning nice um if any work or client relationship doesn't align with that or doesn't feel good we get rid of it yeah so we you asked me earlier about challenges we had a massive challenge in I think it was like early 2022 where we had this client who was paying us a we were on a consultancy basis paying us a day rate that was really high and me and Emma were like brilliant this is going to help us grow loads this client's going to be great they need our help and he was just awful and he liked to get us in a room shout at us about the performance of something that we didn't run CU we were Consultants he'd shout for around an hour and then he'd say right we need more work can you do these projects and sign off more days consultancy yeah so this happened for about three weeks like every week for three weeks on the run and then me and Emma were like we can't sustain this this isn't going to work for us because we can't put anyone in our team on that client because they'll just cry and

22:51leave they won't want to work for us and we don't want to do it because we hate it it's making us anxious and we've dealt with all kinds of clients over the years and we W this so we just fired him and do you know what it felt amazing yeah it was so good we lost a lot of money like we lost like1 122,000 because he never paid his bills but you know it was worth it yeah yeah absolutely I I I talk about that quite frequently in my content as well like red flags to look out for with with clients um and I think you know burnout in our industry is is definitely very common but I don't think it's it's talked about a lot by by a lot of people so also you know every now and then try to to break that stigma and make it you know yeah normal to to talk about these things especially when we have uh let's say you you are an agency owner who doesn't care about your people and you think oh yeah we're making so much money off this client and we're just going to hand it over to one of someone someone in our team um and then they're going to crash and you can still look at it from the business perspective like oh okay if they're burning out oh no then we you know we need to replace this person and etc etc but the thing that people are missing then is then how is that person feeling you know in their personal life in their dayto day if you get a real burnout you can be out of the out of the running for one or two years you know I've seen so many times around sad yeah it's super sad so um yeah I think it takes guts to fire a client like that because of the the the potential Revenue that you could have generated with it um but that people focus is I think what's going to give you longevity in the industry as well yeah exactly and that's the thing we're in it Marathon not yeah nice so uh yeah

24:32you mentioned curiosity uh just now and one of your latest LinkedIn post which I also saw is that you mentioned that according to you the one of the key success in digital marketing is curiosity and perseverance um why why did you say that because if you're not curious you'll never discover what could be so even and this is in everything right but especially in digital if you don't push for more and try and find other ways to keep improving you'll just stagnate and die essentially and there is always ways to improve isn't there I mean we audit accounts all the time including our own and sometimes we get clients that come to us and say h performance is okay but I don't know if I could get more that's like the dream brief because you can just go in and find all these other opportunities um so that's the Curiosity bit essential like a anyone who's not curious they're not going to succeed in my opinion and then the perseverance thing is you will have strategies that you think are going to be amazing and then they just aren't and they just flop or performances in Decline and you really can't figure out why and it's miserable you know we had a situation with our team where um we took on a new account in the summer last year and the guy we put on it is very capable he's run loads of different accounts now but this account was in a really bad place and the RS was going down essentially and the client kept complaining and this person in my team kept saying oh Sunday nights I just had the dread because I

26:09didn't know what performance I was going to come into for the Monday report but he didn't give up so he kept persevering and trying different things and now the accounts in an amazing Place whereas he could have just given up and go PBC just doesn't work for them right but PBC works for everybody right in some capacity you can't give up yeah yeah that's that's that's great and I think also curiosity is is in fact um maybe the one of the core trait trades to look for in people in PC and as you said in other Industries as well because then if yeah maybe even I never thought of it like that but curiosity might be on the other other side of the coin of perseverance because you just don't give up because you are curious like why is it not working and then so it's it's actually two of the same things different paging that's interesting yes cool so um at House of Performance by the way you guys do PID search and paid social that's right yes yes do you also uh do landing pages and stuff like that no but we do make a lot of requests and recommendations we just don't manage them um I don't want us to diversify the channels we offer any more further because we won't be as Specialists and as good I see yeah I mean we've had so many clients say to us well can't you just manage my website can you do my SEO what about email and then it's like yeah yes we could make a bit more cash now but then we won't be experts yeah there's more than enough to do like just with PBC and social like and we do do display as well because I think that comes under the performance

27:46Banner um but yeah we're never going to diversify out of that yeah I see but then you do um let's say you you audit an account or in your own accounts and you see that the landing pages is not driving you know high enough conversion rates you do challenge your clients and say need this and that yeah yeah yeah yeah actually the one of the first audits we ever did um it was for like a big private medical insurer and really the headline from the audit was you need to invest in cro and that's not with us but you need to go away and do that you know yeah so yeah you have to because PPC as an example can only do so much if the landing pages aren't right even the best Google Ads campaigns aren't going to cut it yeah yeah absolutely so important um and then um the last question that I actually wanted to ask you is how do you juggle your role as the co-founder of House of Performance and being a mom of two especially when you started you had a a three-year-old and and a newborn which is crazy it is crazy um using my network so I've got a lot of people that help me with child care similarly in the business you know you have to become so good at delegating and not doing everything yourself so that delegating I suppose in all aspects of life um having a 5050 relationship with my husband so a lot of people still don't quite

29:25have that and the unfortunately mom is doing a lot of the you know drop off pickup all that stuff we are so 5050 like it's crazy and he's got a you know really important career as well but that's so key to me because I can't do it all and I don't want to do it all either like I really love well I love doing bits of everything as I said in the beginning yeah yeah yeah yeah it's actually a selfish question for me as well because uh my girlfriend is due in a couple of weeks I know so uh yeah so uh yeah how you feeling about that uh exciting excited also uh yeah I mean it's probably mostly excitement but I don't I don't really know how everything is going to change I know for a fact that things are going to be different but I just feel that I can't really um yeah there's no way to understand how it really is going to be yeah until until it's actually there and then but I'm looking forward to the most is just seeing how I can um build a new routine with a baby and a and a you know at being a family but yeah everything all things considered it's nice that you have eight nine months to work towards that especially as a man yeah yeah now uh you know first couple of months is like a little bit like well not frightening but you know you're you know what's coming and now since it's been so long already I just know that yeah I'm really looking forward to it now so yeah it's amazing you'll love it you just have to adapt yeah right and every age they get to because now mine are four and seven right it's just different

31:03challenges that's all I can say constant different challenges and you just have to find ways to adapt um yeah luckily that's our work in PBC as well it's it really is quite similar yeah exactly just read the data and then figure it out yeah exactly just know how to adapt be curious persevere yeah I mean I do work funny you ask how I manage like I work normal hours but then sometimes I'll be like working on a pitch in the evening right because I have to because I want to finish I finished earlier to have the kids you know stuff like that but yeah we're in a world where it's fine to do that and it's great yeah and that's where you'll be doing that yeah yeah and that's where you said that you have the 50/50 split with your husband as well which is is crucial in these days where it's not you know depending on what you want as a as a family but I want to have that as well you know want to have responsib so uh yes and it'll be easier where you are much more Progressive yeah for sure all right so um what I want to do now is just fire a few rapid fire questions your way and just give answer you know just just quickly or elaborate as you as you want all right okay uh the first one is there's a popular thing that people want to know actually is how do you stay up to date in our fast changing industry well I'm not saying this to suck up but your podast it's pretty good thank you so this morning I was listening to Thomas echles I don't know if that's say oh my God so good ni nice so good I sent it around to the team um LinkedIn

32:44it's LinkedIn and it's stuff like your podcast it's being curious it's easier than ever to stay up to date I think because people are posting about it constantly yeah about whatever the might you know the thing might be so yeah being curious and using definitely using LinkedIn I get more from LinkedIn than I do from like Google themselves obviously yeah yeah LinkedIn is is crazy it's a treasure treasure Trove for sure I think more and more people have started to to post and share their thoughts whereas a couple of years ago I think people were much more secretive and keeping their their best Secrets secret but now yeah yeah I think it's just the more you give the more you're going to get back from it as well of course yeah yeah all right the second one is do you think Google is going to remove keyword match types in 2025 I don't know about 2025 but they will at some point yeah they will they they will keep throwing challenges and adapting y but that's part of the fun isn't it for sure that's why we that's how we don't get bored yeah yeah I find it interesting when people post stuff like don't you just wish exact match was like it was 10 years ago and it's like no because we can do so many more advanced things because it's better you just have to manage it closely like yeah I know I think it's good yeah and what is the worst Google Ads advice you've ever gotten I mean it's probably the same as everyone else put it all in Broad match right I had a client once it who logged in and um to their own account obviously and they just hit the recommendation

34:24change everything to Broad and they didn't realize what they'd done and yeah we came in the next day they had so many leads that were completely wrong um because they were matching to the wrong stuff so yeah probably put everything on Broad yeah yeah and what about the best what about the best advice for Google Ads oh well so we've done a lot of work with like um uh Forex like trading business and because they spend a lot they Google reps are really really high quality and they have taught us loads about bid strategies and minimum conversions and how to we've done a lot of work where like we've moved down the someone's um process to essentially become a Trader is is a lot of steps and it's lengthy so you start by bidding to application for that but then what you really want is you want to bid for the people that actually are going to trade a high value so working with Google to get there was phenomenal because their guidance was actually good nice so refreshing when you have uh Google reps which is usually not the the lower level of reps like I don't mean like low quality or anything but just with the Teleperformance they are usually more salesy and then the exact growth strategies and stuff like that they are typically typically quite good if they are able to adapt to to your business that's quite exactly if they listen yeah yeah all right so uh I have two final questions um the first one is more geared towards agency owners uh because I think um some agency owners will be listening to this and try to learn from your experience building

36:01House of Performance and then the other one would be for uh the PPC expert uh so people that could be part of your team for example so first for the agency owners what is one piece of advice that you would give them about building and growing agency like the one thing that you think is really important can I have two H sure sure okay so number one is Define your goals sorry your values Define your values and live and die by them so example one of our values is enjoying our work so if somebody doesn't align with that it's not going to happen you know really important so whatever your values might be because it's really easy to stick to stuff that you care about and the second one is find people to work with that are aligned with you so even if you don't I was really lucky I had a business partner I've got Emma right and I knew before we even started that she would be the right person to do this with but some people don't have that so find people that you can use for your business whether that's as an advisor or um they might be an employee whatever that are aligned to your values um because you can't be there constantly sometimes you might want to take a holiday and they can cover you and that's super important yeah how do you how do you hire for those um for those values then is that does is that part of your recruitment process yeah I think it's about like having a lot of conversations over different time periods and just asking all sorts of questions not just about the role right

37:40ask about their personal lives what they're into stuff like that as well um we do sometimes do like what would you do if type questions to see how people react yeah um somehow trying to check honesty is good check if someone's going to be honest and interview mhm um that's super important or if then and you know you get it wrong sometimes but then you remove them from the business unfortunately yeah yeah yeah absolutely all right then the last question is uh more geared towards the bpc experts um if you had one tip that could improve their careers what would that be be curious sorry to repeat um NE like never stop being curious I've worked in this for so long now and I still just love I mean I just love going on Google and seeing what other people are doing and how can I use that for mine and so yeah just be curious and like use your network particularly on LinkedIn like follow the people that are going to teach you stuff you know don't let your feed become full of people selling you stuff and loads of rubbish follow people that actually are going to add value to your career and help you learn yeah um yeah solid all right well on that note thank you Kat so much for for coming on uh I've learned a lot but uh one thing that I'm taking away here is that it's definitely super important to look for people who have similar values as you and also care about the other person that you're working with whether it is your client or your team member or a business partner or whatever it is I think um what you guys are doing at

39:17House of Performance building a team where you kind of humanize your PPC experts instead of just looking at them as someone who has to produce a certain amount of hours per month or something like that I think as I said it's a it's really refreshing in our industry I think we need more of that so uh yeah definitely keeping up and uh yeah where can people B way yeah where can people follow you and connect with you LinkedIn it's probably the best place so um yeah just Kat Sale on LinkedIn easy and you have your website is is it houseofperformance.com yeah yeah. cuk yeah oh. co.uk so all right everyone go follow Kat for more uh the scenes and and results and challenges and yeah you're you're always super honest in your post so yeah yeah keep it up and thank you for coming on and uh feel free to come back anytime thanks thanks for having me all right that's the end of this episode of the PBC Mastery podcast I hope you enjoyed it and if you don't want to miss any future episodes we're going to be back next week then don't forget to subscribe and share with a friend family member or a colleague uh because that's the only way we can grow this show now there's two more things I want to share with you if you want to take your Google Ads game to the next level the first one is if you want to get advanced Google Ads tips delivered straight into your inbox on Mondays and Fridays head over to PBC mastery.com newsletter to subscribe to our newsletter called the PBC Edge and next to that if you want to really really really take your skills to the next level and become the best Google ad specialist you can possibly be then consider joining the PPC Hub which

40:54is our coaching and Community platform for x experienced Google ad specialist you can find everything about it on PBC mastery.com Hub and with that said I'll catch you in next week's episode Peace